Last bit on Patricia....
That brings us to Lesson Three. In the back of my mind I began to wonder if the fleas might be God's way of getting my attention concerning my lack of honor toward my husband. But I reasoned that at this point the flea thing might still, maybe, be a happenstance-just a fluke.
I agree with you, Patricia. The flea incidents were random and not divine punishment.
We had friends who put a lovely house on the market, but it was not selling. We decided to exchange fixing the house up for a decrease in the rent and live there until it sold.
This is the first and only decent financial advice in the whole book. (Assuming everyone nails down the details ahead of time....)
During the hot, dry month of August I decided to try growing grass in the dustbowl of a back yard. I asked my husband to help with the work. He agreed after some hesitation, but cautioned, "Don't you think it's too hot to plant grass seed?"
Yes. August is a horrible time to plant anything unless you are planning on watering daily.
I chided him, thinking, "Why does he always drag his feet?" I am sure he read my thoughts, as my face must have reflected my dishonor, but he went along with me...again. We purchased the seed and then went to a local farm to purchase bales of hay. We prepared the ground, planted the seed and spread the hay.
I'm wiling to bet good money that she bought bales of straw, not hay. Hay is dried grasses and legumes that are cut and dried while the plants are actively growing. Straw is the dried stalks of cereals after the grains have been harvested. Hay runs at least twice the price of straw.
While sitting in church the next day I noticed one of my sons scratching. He leaned over to me and said, "I think fleas are biting me." If he had said he had leprosy it would have not affected me more than the word fleas.
Nice use of hyperbole...I hope.
It was fleas from the hay which my husband had said was a waste of time to spread. Once again my family had to endure the consequences of my stubbornness in not listening to my husband's gentle caution.
Did I better understand submission by that time? You better believe I did. Did the grass grow? Of course not!
Divine intervention and punishment - three minor moments of "disobedience" lead to fleas. Wow.
[skipped several boring paragraphs]
It was easy to dismiss my husband's wishes without feeling rebellious because he never actually commanded me in anything. He never lorded me over me; he has what some would call a 'quiet voice'. He clearly wanted me to honor him, but he wanted me to honor from my heart, not from his demand. I knew, and he knew that I knew, what he wanted me to do. He wanted me to obey him.Um...yeah. This is a great example of a marriage where some counseling and communication skills work is in order. I don't have a problem with Patricia's "disobedience". She can be dismissive of her husband and that can be very toxic to a marriage. The odd thing about this story is Patricia is the person who identifies her "sin" and decides that the fleas are due to her "sin". Jesse doesn't seem to care much one way or the other if Patricia "obeys" him. (I suspect he'd prefer fewer fleas incidents, but that's normal.) All of this exists in Patricia's head - and that's scary.
AntiPearl:
Saturday, June 27, 2015
Sunday, June 7, 2015
The moments my heart stopped: Jill and Jessa's Interviews
Jill and Jessa's interview with Megyn Kelly terrified me.
The talking points were creepy as hell - and nearly identical to the Duggar parents talking points.
Internalization One: Josh didn't molest us.
Jessa: " But I do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile or a rapist some people are saying. That is so overboard and a lie really. I mean, people will get mad at me for saying that but I'm like I can say this. You know? I was one of the victims, so I can speak out and I can say this and set the record straight here."
Reality Check: Josh molested you. Josh molested Jill. Josh molested two of your sisters and a babysitter. He's a child molester.
Internalization Two: All the victims were unconscious which makes it not so bad.
Jill: We didn't even know about it until he went and confessed it to my parents and they shared it with us.
KELLY: Neither of you knew?
Jessa: None of the victims were aware of what happened until Joshua confessed.
Jill: It wasn't like we were keeping secret afraid or something.
Reality Check: One of the two of you saw the time Josh molested a sibling in the laundry room according to your police report. You may not have known prior to March 2002 but by March 2003, at least one of you was aware that he was still molesting your siblings. But, since your parents never got you counseling (according to their interview), I can see why this script is much, much safer for both of you.
Internalization Three Other people have been abused so much worse.KELLY: You had no memory of it?
Jessa: I didn't know. I didn't understand, okay, this is what's happened until my parents told me. And so I think at that point it was just kind of like, it's like, you never think like this will happen to me or something.
Jill: Yes. And in our case, you know, it's very mild compared to what happened to some.
Jessa: I know so many girls --
[From later]
Jill: And I feel for the other families out there. I mean, statistics say two-thirds of families deal with something like that and that's only the families who are reporting it.
Reality Check:
*I stopped cold here*
Why do the Duggar family know so many families where sexual abuse occurs?
Why is being molested by your brother "mild"? It's not mild. Again, the script is more comforting than the truth.
The statistic is something like 67% of people know of someone who has been sexually abused at some point during their life. That's not the same as 67% of families having abuse in them. Not even close.
Internalization Four: The year between March 2002-March 2003 never happened.
Kelly: So, you had the family meeting. Did Josh go away right after that?
Jessa: He did pretty soon. At the time I was young so it kind of seems like everything was a whirlwind or whatever.
KELLY: Was there time that you were in house with Josh knowing this prior to him going away?
Jessa: Not really. I think that whenever it was brought to my attention. It wasn't very long after that Josh went away that I knew.
KELLY: Do you remember the dynamic of being in the house thinking --
Jill: We were sad.
Reality Check: Josh left the house one year after he confessed to molesting Jessa and Jill. According to the Duggars, they told Jill and Jessa about Josh's confession in the spring of 2002. They were in the house with Josh for over a year before he left.
Internalization Five: My parents put in great safeguards that kept us all safe.
Jill: I was going to say not, you know, being alone. My parents said, okay, we're not going to do this hide and seek thing where two people go off and hide together and not baby-sitting the girls.
KELLY: At night in your room?
Jill: Locks on the doors, you know, everybody's in bed, girls in the girls' room, boys in the boys' room. And so, yes. And as a mother now, I look back and I think, you know, my parents did such an amazing job. For me, even when we went through the DHS investigation, they complimented my parents on what an amazing job they did through that process. And so, I think not only taking the legal actions that they did and then going the extra mile and I see as a mom I hope that I can set the same safeguards in my family that they did and, you know, reaching the heart of their children. And not only trying to take care of Josh but us girls.
Reality Check:
Why does everyone have to sleep in a locked bedroom? Because Josh molested a babysitter on the couch after he told your parents.
Why can't the boys baby sit the girls? Because Josh molested one of your sisters when she was left home with him after your parents knew about Josh.
Both Michelle and Jill brought up "no playing hide and seek" which scares me that someone else was molested by Josh and it was never reported.
Either way - NOT great parenting skills.
Internalization Six: Outsiders agree! Mom and Dad handled this like champs.
Jill: You know, we had dealt with that when investigation with our family was closed after all those months, they said your parents have done an amazing job. They were praising our parents and said, your home is a safe place for children.
Reality Check:
I'm sure the Duggars will be more than happy to supply the name and rank of anyone who was praising the family after the police report. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Internalization Seven: NONE of us were hurt. Not even the younger girls who remembered.
KELLY: Do you feel like you're speaking on behalf of your other sisters, too? To your younger sisters?
Jill: No, we can't. We can't speak for the other ones. But I feel like as far as --
Jessa: I can speak for the others as far as saying that everybody's angry that it's been publicized.
Jill: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
KELLY: How about when it comes to forgiving Josh?
Jessa: Oh, everybody is forgiven. We've all forgiven. And we've all moved on.
Jill: That was long ago.
KELLY: How about the baby-sitter? Her too? The baby-sitter as well?
Jessa: Yes. Definitely.
Reality Check:
Jill's real self broke through for a second and she refused to white-wash her sisters' experience.
Jessa brought forward the party line "Everyone is great!"
Internalization Eight: We got counseling. Not the creepy ATI kind; REAL counseling.
Jill: I mean, we all went through professional counseling, but Josh did, too, and.
KELLY: Yes.
Jill: . I mean, he had to pay for his own and.
KELLY: Did you have to work that out? I mean, what -- what were you working out there?
Jill: You know, what you do in counseling. You talk about what happened, you talk about the actions that have been taken you. You just -- we really wanted to make sure that everything in our hearts was dealt with.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Was it cathartic for you?
Jill: Not anything.
KELLY: Did you - did you solve some things in there?
Jessa: It was - it was really good and I'm really grateful that - that my parents encouraged us to -- to go through that, to get that licensed counseling and all what. I think it was - it was really helpful for us to just kind of close that chapter.
Jill: Closure.
Reality check:Real counseling costs a lot of money. Josh would have been racking up a $400 dollar bill per month for counseling. How exactly did he pay that back at 14-15 years old? Oh, wait. Illegal remodeling work crew. Got it.
[I didn't mean to laugh, but "You know, what you do in counseling" is such a classic teen attempt to hide missing an event. "What did you do at church today? Oh, you know, prayed." ]
I've seen a psychologist for depression and anxiety for 14 years. These women have clearly never seen a counselor since the words "feelings" are absent while "closure" is present.
I hope - for their sake - that they do see a real counselor some day who can help them process the hell they have lived through.
The talking points were creepy as hell - and nearly identical to the Duggar parents talking points.
- Being molested isn't so bad because we didn't even know what happened until our parents told us!
- We found out about the molestation about 30 seconds before Josh left for Little Rock.
- Our parents are awesome!
Internalization One: Josh didn't molest us.
Jessa: " But I do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile or a rapist some people are saying. That is so overboard and a lie really. I mean, people will get mad at me for saying that but I'm like I can say this. You know? I was one of the victims, so I can speak out and I can say this and set the record straight here."
Reality Check: Josh molested you. Josh molested Jill. Josh molested two of your sisters and a babysitter. He's a child molester.
Internalization Two: All the victims were unconscious which makes it not so bad.
Jill: We didn't even know about it until he went and confessed it to my parents and they shared it with us.
KELLY: Neither of you knew?
Jessa: None of the victims were aware of what happened until Joshua confessed.
Jill: It wasn't like we were keeping secret afraid or something.
Reality Check: One of the two of you saw the time Josh molested a sibling in the laundry room according to your police report. You may not have known prior to March 2002 but by March 2003, at least one of you was aware that he was still molesting your siblings. But, since your parents never got you counseling (according to their interview), I can see why this script is much, much safer for both of you.
Internalization Three Other people have been abused so much worse.KELLY: You had no memory of it?
Jessa: I didn't know. I didn't understand, okay, this is what's happened until my parents told me. And so I think at that point it was just kind of like, it's like, you never think like this will happen to me or something.
Jill: Yes. And in our case, you know, it's very mild compared to what happened to some.
Jessa: I know so many girls --
[From later]
Jill: And I feel for the other families out there. I mean, statistics say two-thirds of families deal with something like that and that's only the families who are reporting it.
Reality Check:
*I stopped cold here*
Why do the Duggar family know so many families where sexual abuse occurs?
Why is being molested by your brother "mild"? It's not mild. Again, the script is more comforting than the truth.
The statistic is something like 67% of people know of someone who has been sexually abused at some point during their life. That's not the same as 67% of families having abuse in them. Not even close.
Internalization Four: The year between March 2002-March 2003 never happened.
Kelly: So, you had the family meeting. Did Josh go away right after that?
Jessa: He did pretty soon. At the time I was young so it kind of seems like everything was a whirlwind or whatever.
KELLY: Was there time that you were in house with Josh knowing this prior to him going away?
Jessa: Not really. I think that whenever it was brought to my attention. It wasn't very long after that Josh went away that I knew.
KELLY: Do you remember the dynamic of being in the house thinking --
Jill: We were sad.
Reality Check: Josh left the house one year after he confessed to molesting Jessa and Jill. According to the Duggars, they told Jill and Jessa about Josh's confession in the spring of 2002. They were in the house with Josh for over a year before he left.
Internalization Five: My parents put in great safeguards that kept us all safe.
Jill: I was going to say not, you know, being alone. My parents said, okay, we're not going to do this hide and seek thing where two people go off and hide together and not baby-sitting the girls.
KELLY: At night in your room?
Jill: Locks on the doors, you know, everybody's in bed, girls in the girls' room, boys in the boys' room. And so, yes. And as a mother now, I look back and I think, you know, my parents did such an amazing job. For me, even when we went through the DHS investigation, they complimented my parents on what an amazing job they did through that process. And so, I think not only taking the legal actions that they did and then going the extra mile and I see as a mom I hope that I can set the same safeguards in my family that they did and, you know, reaching the heart of their children. And not only trying to take care of Josh but us girls.
Reality Check:
Why does everyone have to sleep in a locked bedroom? Because Josh molested a babysitter on the couch after he told your parents.
Why can't the boys baby sit the girls? Because Josh molested one of your sisters when she was left home with him after your parents knew about Josh.
Both Michelle and Jill brought up "no playing hide and seek" which scares me that someone else was molested by Josh and it was never reported.
Either way - NOT great parenting skills.
Internalization Six: Outsiders agree! Mom and Dad handled this like champs.
Jill: You know, we had dealt with that when investigation with our family was closed after all those months, they said your parents have done an amazing job. They were praising our parents and said, your home is a safe place for children.
Reality Check:
I'm sure the Duggars will be more than happy to supply the name and rank of anyone who was praising the family after the police report. I'm not holding my breath, though.
Internalization Seven: NONE of us were hurt. Not even the younger girls who remembered.
KELLY: Do you feel like you're speaking on behalf of your other sisters, too? To your younger sisters?
Jill: No, we can't. We can't speak for the other ones. But I feel like as far as --
Jessa: I can speak for the others as far as saying that everybody's angry that it's been publicized.
Jill: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
KELLY: How about when it comes to forgiving Josh?
Jessa: Oh, everybody is forgiven. We've all forgiven. And we've all moved on.
Jill: That was long ago.
KELLY: How about the baby-sitter? Her too? The baby-sitter as well?
Jessa: Yes. Definitely.
Reality Check:
Jill's real self broke through for a second and she refused to white-wash her sisters' experience.
Jessa brought forward the party line "Everyone is great!"
Internalization Eight: We got counseling. Not the creepy ATI kind; REAL counseling.
Jill: I mean, we all went through professional counseling, but Josh did, too, and.
KELLY: Yes.
Jill: . I mean, he had to pay for his own and.
KELLY: Did you have to work that out? I mean, what -- what were you working out there?
Jill: You know, what you do in counseling. You talk about what happened, you talk about the actions that have been taken you. You just -- we really wanted to make sure that everything in our hearts was dealt with.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: Was it cathartic for you?
Jill: Not anything.
KELLY: Did you - did you solve some things in there?
Jessa: It was - it was really good and I'm really grateful that - that my parents encouraged us to -- to go through that, to get that licensed counseling and all what. I think it was - it was really helpful for us to just kind of close that chapter.
Jill: Closure.
Reality check:Real counseling costs a lot of money. Josh would have been racking up a $400 dollar bill per month for counseling. How exactly did he pay that back at 14-15 years old? Oh, wait. Illegal remodeling work crew. Got it.
[I didn't mean to laugh, but "You know, what you do in counseling" is such a classic teen attempt to hide missing an event. "What did you do at church today? Oh, you know, prayed." ]
I've seen a psychologist for depression and anxiety for 14 years. These women have clearly never seen a counselor since the words "feelings" are absent while "closure" is present.
I hope - for their sake - that they do see a real counselor some day who can help them process the hell they have lived through.
Saturday, June 6, 2015
How many lies can you find? Part Two - JimBob and Michelle on Fox
To keep things straight, I've made a cheat sheet based off the Duggar Police Report of 2006.
March 2002: Josh (14 years) confesses to Jim Bob and Michelle that he's molested Daughters "A" and "D" while they were sleeping (when at least one girl was sleeping on the couch of the living room). "D" doesn't remember the abuse; "A" woke up at one point and thought in her half-awake state that Josh was stealing her blanket.
May 2002: Josh confesses to Jim Bob and Michelle that he molested Non-Duggar "H" while she was babysitting / sleeping over on the couch in the living room. She doesn't remember being molested, but has been kept away from Josh since he returned from Little Rock.
March 2003: Josh (most likely but possibly a sibling) confesses to Jim Bob that he molested Daughter "C" while babysitting her while the parents were out. Around this time, Jim Bob and Michelle find out that Daughter "B" was molested by Josh near the laundry room. Daughter "D" saw at least some of what happened between Daughter "B" and Josh and was disturbed enough by the memory of that AND/OR the fact she was molested in her sleep to cry during the interview with police.
To be clear: Daughters "C" and "B" remember the abuse clearly enough to report what happened in 2006 AND Daughter "D" was disturbed enough what she saw and/or experienced to cry during a police interview.
Josh is shipped off to a friend of the family to help remodel a building in Little Rock for three months. He is now 15 years. (FYI: Probably not legal for a 15 year old to be remodeling a building. )
July 2003: Josh returns to the family. He's escorted by Jim Bob to the police station where Sgt. Hutchins lectures him sternly and fails to report abuse as mandated.
December 2006: A concerned person sends Harpo Studios and the local police an email/fax warning of abuse in the Duggar family. The police report that should have been filed in 2003 was finally filed, but the statute of limitation have passed.
The bolded, italicized sections are added by the author to point out the lies.
Lie One: " And so we went, and the first thing was to protect the girls. And so we went in --"
Truth: Josh molested three known victims - Daughters "B" and "C" as well as "H" - after Jim Bob and Michelle decided to protect the girls.
Lie Two:
"KELLY: The girls all slept together?
M. DUGGAR: Hm-mm.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. The girls had two bedrooms at the time.
KELLY: How many girls are we talking about?
J. B. DUGGAR: We had five girls at the time."
Truth: Assuming Jim Bob and Michelle are speaking strictly of what they knew in March 2002, they were aware that at least one daughter had been molested outside of the girls' bedroom. By the time Josh was sent away, 80% of his victims had been molested outside of their bedroom. Why bother lying about such a small thing? Door locks and door alarms. There's a reason Jill and Jessa started talking about door locks - if the Duggars imply that Josh was sneaking into the girls' bedrooms, putting up door locks is a (pathetic) safety move. Since he was molesting outside of the bedrooms - and during the day - it's a pointless attempt by JimBob and Michelle to look like responsible parents.
Lie Three:
"KELLY: OK. But neither one had any recollection of [being molested].
J. B. DUGGAR: They did not know."
Truth: Daughter "A" remembered Josh pulling a blanket off of her during one of the attacks. She remembered something. This is the beginning of Jim Bob and Michelle's theme: NO MEMORY-NO PROBLEM.
Lie Four:
"J.B. Duggar: But really, looking back, we did the best we could under the circumstances."
Truth: Josh molested two more sisters and a guest after he confessed the first time. The Duggar parents should be hideously ashamed at their efforts - because they CLEARLY FAILED.
Lie Five:
"J.B. Duggar: And so we talked to him, we put all kinds of punishments on him, we watched him, like, all the time. I took him to work with me, and he just -- I mean, we just poured our life into it."
Truth: Well, except when you had a female family friend over and she fell asleep on the couch. How did you forget to warn her? Oh, and that time you left him at home with your daughter "C" while you were out at dinner. Yup. Watched him like a hawk.
Lies Six, Seven and Eight:
"J. B. DUGGAR: OK. So, we had safeguards that protected them from that. But there was another incident where -- two different incidents where the girls were, like, laying on the couch, and it was -- he had touched, like, over the couch and actually touched their breast while they were asleep. And so
M. DUGGAR: Over their clothes.
J. B. DUGGAR: -- over their clothes."
Truth: The "girls' bedroom as danger area" is a strawman. The Duggars knew by March 2002 that Josh molested his sister "A" in the living room on the couch and did nothing to protect non-Duggar "H". Sister "C" was molested on the couch - but she was awake and touched under her clothing. Touching "over the clothing" is NO less abusive than "under the clothing".
Freaking Improbable One:
J.B. Duggar: "But as we talked to other parents and different ones since then, a lot of families have said that they've had similar things happen in their families."
Reality Check One: There is nothing normal about molesting 4 siblings and at least 1 unrelated girl. I cannot, however, disprove Jim Bob's statement that his family regularly interacts with other abusive families.
The Moment the Ground should have swallowed him:
"J.B. Duggar: "All of these -- again, this was not rape or anything like that, this was like touching somebody over their clothes. There were a couple incidents where he touched them under J. B. DUGGAR: You know, what? As parents you're not mandatory reporters. The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child.their clothes, but it was like a few seconds and then he came to us and was crying and told us what happened, and it was after that third time he came to us is where we really felt like, you know what? We have done everything we can as parents to handle this in-house. We need to get help."
Reality Check Two: Molestation isn't OK. Your attempts to handle this "in-house" allowed Josh to molest three more victims. Jim Bob, you make me sick.The moment that leads to changes in mandated reporting laws:"J. B. DUGGAR: You know, what? As parents you're not mandatory reporters. The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child."
Reality Check Three: Which kid? Josh - he asked for help; you never gave it to him. Daughter "D" - you let her see her sister "B" be molested after being molested herself. Daughters "B" and "C" who were attacked while you were trying to cover it in-house. Which kid did you help?
Lies Nine and Ten:
"KELLY: And we'll going to get to that in one second. The subsequent incidents after the first one involved daughters who were awake, at least a couple of them?
J. B. DUGGAR: There was a couple, yes. And they didn't really understand, though, what happened.
KELLY: Yes. What --
M. DUGGAR: It was more his heart, his intent. He knew that it was wrong. But in theirs they weren't even aware. They were like, you know, it wasn't -- to them they didn't probably even understand that it was an improper touch."
Truth: The police reports make it clear that "B" and "C" knew that Josh molested them. Remember, all of this happen while Jim Bob and Michelle were "pouring their life into" watching Josh.
Lie Eleven and Twelve:
"KELLY: And prior to him leaving, were you concerned for the safety of your daughters?
M. DUGGAR: Well, we definitely put safeguards in our home.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes, and we also talked to our daughters and reminded them about wrong and right touch and about if anybody ever touched you in a wrong way for you to come and tell your mom immediately."
Truth: You said that the girls didn't know Josh touched them in a wrong way. Not even two minutes ago - you said that. Also, at the risk of beating a dead horse, your safeguards still allowed Josh to molest at least three more times.
Lie Thirteen:"J. B. DUGGAR: You know, I think it was a situation where we felt like our son's heart had gone astray. I think Jesus shared a story about he had a hundred sheep and one went astray, and there he was. He took care of the 99 but he also went after the one that went astray. And so, as parents we still loved Josh and we love our other ones, but we're going to protect those that are in our hands, but also we're going to make sure Josh doesn't make any wrong choices.
M. DUGGAR: It doesn't mean that you're not a good shepherd. Jesus is a good shepherd but he went after that one that went astray. And so I think as parents we were trying to do the best that we knew how to help this one and protect these. And I feel like through that, as we came to that point where, you know, Josh shared, you know, improperly touching a young one, we were devastated and we said, we've got to send him out of the home. He has got to go and seek counsel and get help."
Truth: It's gotta hurt like hell to be an "older" Duggar girl. Your parents are reasonably OK with you being molested compared to your little sister.
Let's chat for a sec about how you "helped" Josh at home. Oh, wait. You did nothing. Josh self-reported 4 of the 5 known assaults. One of the victims or witness reported the fifth. No counseling. No removal to a grandparent, aunt /uncle or cousin without children. No emergency foster care. Not a freaking thing.
Jim Bob and Michelle are not Good Shepards.
Lie 14:
"KELLY: All this you learned from Josh.
J. B. DUGGAR: And actually none of the victims really knew about this or understood what he had done until we told them.
Truth:
One: We've covered this: Daughters "B", "C" and "D" were awake and aware of being molested or seeing a sister be molested.
Two: NO MEMORY-NO PROBLEM is sick logic.
Please, let this be a lie:
"KELLY: I'm asking you more as the father of your girls than as the father of Josh. You know, it must have been very hard to look at your little one and know the behavior had been ongoing, as difficult as your position was.
J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse.
KELLY: And just to clarify, it was four daughters and there was a babysitter outside the family.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes."
Or else the truth is: Jim-Bob knows situations where one abuser hurt more than 5 people in one year and he's OK with that.
Lie Fifteen:"KELLY: We're getting into that. First I want to ask you about the counseling because the counseling Josh got in that treatment center was that the only counseling he ever received. What about your daughters?
J.B. DUGGAR: No. Josh actually went and had complete professional...
KELLY: The real licensed therapist counseling?
M. DUGGAR: All of our children received professional counseling, including Josh. After this, all of our children received professional counseling, including Josh, who paid for his own counseling himself.
J.B. DUGGAR: It was an accredited professional counselor.
Truth: To paraphrase Michelle, he was a mentor "kind of "......but not licensed.
Lie Sixteen:
KELLY: Did you ever worry that the treatment didn't work, especially with so many young children in the house?
J.B. DUGGAR: No. No. Josh was a changed person.
M. DUGGAR: We still had those safeguards in place. I mean, there were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents with this first child, first son to come to this place in his life, we're like, there were things we learned even since then that I think, you know what, we don't let boys baby-sit. They don't play hide and seek together, the two don't go off and hide. There are just a lot of things we've put in place. You're not alone in a room with someone else. Always be out visible, and, you know, little ones don't sit on big boys' laps or people that you don't know or even family members, unless it's your daddy. So we just -- there's boundaries that we've learned --
Truth: Those safeguards appeared after the police report in 2006 - if ever. Son "F" stated that Josh and he both babysat - just for short times. You know, when Michelle and Jim Bob couldn't find anyone else to pawn their offspring on.
Lie Seventeen:"M. DUGGAR: I think that protecting young girls and not allowing young men or men in general to go into a girls' locker room is just common sense."Truth: That is NOT what your robocall was about. Woman, you let four of your daughters and one babysitter be molested under your roof - you have NO place to lecture us on common sense.
Lie Eighteen and Nineteen:
"KELLY: What happens to the Duggars from here?
J.B. DUGGAR: I don't know if the rest of the family should be punished for acts of our children that happened 12 years ago or not, but, you know, we are fine whether they film us or not. We're going to go ahead and live life and serve god and make a difference in the world."
Truth: Why is Jim Bob so reluctant to express anger or outrage at the fact his daughters were molested? Because he blames the girls AND Josh equally. Let's not be stupid; you need the cash to keep your lifestyle going.
Lie 20:
"M. DUGGAR: What's devastating as a mom for me is we took our children to the children safety center. We trusted them. We trusted the police department. Our children poured out their hearts. They shared everything. And then to have their trust betrayed? And for all of their information and everything they share to be turned over to a tabloid, for those things to be twisted and shared in a slanderous way, story after story, tabloid after tabloid. That breaks my heart for my girls because I think this is such a horrible -- they've been victimized more by what has happened in these last couple weeks than they were 12 years ago because they honestly - - they didn't even understand or know that anything had happened until after the fact when they were told about it. And so I think there's not -- in our hearts before god, we haven't been keeping secrets, we have been protecting those that, honestly, should be protected. And now what's happened is they've been victimized. But people with an agenda, and for whatever profit they think they're going to get? But in this, one thing I know is god is going to use all of this for good."
THE TRUTH: The following children TRUSTED you, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar: Daughter "A", Daughter "B", Daughter "C", Daughter "D", the babysitter "H", and Josh Duggar.
You BETRAYED them in 2002, 2003 and 2015 for money and fame.
The worst part is still to come, Jim Bob and Michelle.
Your daughters are growing...beginning their own families.
With maturity, your daughters will realize that you were willing to sacrifice them - not to save Josh - but to avoid inconveniencing yourself.
I only have one question: How do you sleep at night?
March 2002: Josh (14 years) confesses to Jim Bob and Michelle that he's molested Daughters "A" and "D" while they were sleeping (when at least one girl was sleeping on the couch of the living room). "D" doesn't remember the abuse; "A" woke up at one point and thought in her half-awake state that Josh was stealing her blanket.
May 2002: Josh confesses to Jim Bob and Michelle that he molested Non-Duggar "H" while she was babysitting / sleeping over on the couch in the living room. She doesn't remember being molested, but has been kept away from Josh since he returned from Little Rock.
March 2003: Josh (most likely but possibly a sibling) confesses to Jim Bob that he molested Daughter "C" while babysitting her while the parents were out. Around this time, Jim Bob and Michelle find out that Daughter "B" was molested by Josh near the laundry room. Daughter "D" saw at least some of what happened between Daughter "B" and Josh and was disturbed enough by the memory of that AND/OR the fact she was molested in her sleep to cry during the interview with police.
To be clear: Daughters "C" and "B" remember the abuse clearly enough to report what happened in 2006 AND Daughter "D" was disturbed enough what she saw and/or experienced to cry during a police interview.
Josh is shipped off to a friend of the family to help remodel a building in Little Rock for three months. He is now 15 years. (FYI: Probably not legal for a 15 year old to be remodeling a building. )
July 2003: Josh returns to the family. He's escorted by Jim Bob to the police station where Sgt. Hutchins lectures him sternly and fails to report abuse as mandated.
December 2006: A concerned person sends Harpo Studios and the local police an email/fax warning of abuse in the Duggar family. The police report that should have been filed in 2003 was finally filed, but the statute of limitation have passed.
The bolded, italicized sections are added by the author to point out the lies.
Lie One: " And so we went, and the first thing was to protect the girls. And so we went in --"
Truth: Josh molested three known victims - Daughters "B" and "C" as well as "H" - after Jim Bob and Michelle decided to protect the girls.
Lie Two:
"KELLY: The girls all slept together?
M. DUGGAR: Hm-mm.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. The girls had two bedrooms at the time.
KELLY: How many girls are we talking about?
J. B. DUGGAR: We had five girls at the time."
Truth: Assuming Jim Bob and Michelle are speaking strictly of what they knew in March 2002, they were aware that at least one daughter had been molested outside of the girls' bedroom. By the time Josh was sent away, 80% of his victims had been molested outside of their bedroom. Why bother lying about such a small thing? Door locks and door alarms. There's a reason Jill and Jessa started talking about door locks - if the Duggars imply that Josh was sneaking into the girls' bedrooms, putting up door locks is a (pathetic) safety move. Since he was molesting outside of the bedrooms - and during the day - it's a pointless attempt by JimBob and Michelle to look like responsible parents.
Lie Three:
"KELLY: OK. But neither one had any recollection of [being molested].
J. B. DUGGAR: They did not know."
Truth: Daughter "A" remembered Josh pulling a blanket off of her during one of the attacks. She remembered something. This is the beginning of Jim Bob and Michelle's theme: NO MEMORY-NO PROBLEM.
Lie Four:
"J.B. Duggar: But really, looking back, we did the best we could under the circumstances."
Truth: Josh molested two more sisters and a guest after he confessed the first time. The Duggar parents should be hideously ashamed at their efforts - because they CLEARLY FAILED.
Lie Five:
"J.B. Duggar: And so we talked to him, we put all kinds of punishments on him, we watched him, like, all the time. I took him to work with me, and he just -- I mean, we just poured our life into it."
Truth: Well, except when you had a female family friend over and she fell asleep on the couch. How did you forget to warn her? Oh, and that time you left him at home with your daughter "C" while you were out at dinner. Yup. Watched him like a hawk.
Lies Six, Seven and Eight:
"J. B. DUGGAR: OK. So, we had safeguards that protected them from that. But there was another incident where -- two different incidents where the girls were, like, laying on the couch, and it was -- he had touched, like, over the couch and actually touched their breast while they were asleep. And so
M. DUGGAR: Over their clothes.
J. B. DUGGAR: -- over their clothes."
Truth: The "girls' bedroom as danger area" is a strawman. The Duggars knew by March 2002 that Josh molested his sister "A" in the living room on the couch and did nothing to protect non-Duggar "H". Sister "C" was molested on the couch - but she was awake and touched under her clothing. Touching "over the clothing" is NO less abusive than "under the clothing".
Freaking Improbable One:
J.B. Duggar: "But as we talked to other parents and different ones since then, a lot of families have said that they've had similar things happen in their families."
Reality Check One: There is nothing normal about molesting 4 siblings and at least 1 unrelated girl. I cannot, however, disprove Jim Bob's statement that his family regularly interacts with other abusive families.
The Moment the Ground should have swallowed him:
"J.B. Duggar: "All of these -- again, this was not rape or anything like that, this was like touching somebody over their clothes. There were a couple incidents where he touched them under J. B. DUGGAR: You know, what? As parents you're not mandatory reporters. The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child.their clothes, but it was like a few seconds and then he came to us and was crying and told us what happened, and it was after that third time he came to us is where we really felt like, you know what? We have done everything we can as parents to handle this in-house. We need to get help."
Reality Check Two: Molestation isn't OK. Your attempts to handle this "in-house" allowed Josh to molest three more victims. Jim Bob, you make me sick.The moment that leads to changes in mandated reporting laws:"J. B. DUGGAR: You know, what? As parents you're not mandatory reporters. The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child."
Reality Check Three: Which kid? Josh - he asked for help; you never gave it to him. Daughter "D" - you let her see her sister "B" be molested after being molested herself. Daughters "B" and "C" who were attacked while you were trying to cover it in-house. Which kid did you help?
Lies Nine and Ten:
"KELLY: And we'll going to get to that in one second. The subsequent incidents after the first one involved daughters who were awake, at least a couple of them?
J. B. DUGGAR: There was a couple, yes. And they didn't really understand, though, what happened.
KELLY: Yes. What --
M. DUGGAR: It was more his heart, his intent. He knew that it was wrong. But in theirs they weren't even aware. They were like, you know, it wasn't -- to them they didn't probably even understand that it was an improper touch."
Truth: The police reports make it clear that "B" and "C" knew that Josh molested them. Remember, all of this happen while Jim Bob and Michelle were "pouring their life into" watching Josh.
Lie Eleven and Twelve:
"KELLY: And prior to him leaving, were you concerned for the safety of your daughters?
M. DUGGAR: Well, we definitely put safeguards in our home.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes, and we also talked to our daughters and reminded them about wrong and right touch and about if anybody ever touched you in a wrong way for you to come and tell your mom immediately."
Truth: You said that the girls didn't know Josh touched them in a wrong way. Not even two minutes ago - you said that. Also, at the risk of beating a dead horse, your safeguards still allowed Josh to molest at least three more times.
Lie Thirteen:"J. B. DUGGAR: You know, I think it was a situation where we felt like our son's heart had gone astray. I think Jesus shared a story about he had a hundred sheep and one went astray, and there he was. He took care of the 99 but he also went after the one that went astray. And so, as parents we still loved Josh and we love our other ones, but we're going to protect those that are in our hands, but also we're going to make sure Josh doesn't make any wrong choices.
M. DUGGAR: It doesn't mean that you're not a good shepherd. Jesus is a good shepherd but he went after that one that went astray. And so I think as parents we were trying to do the best that we knew how to help this one and protect these. And I feel like through that, as we came to that point where, you know, Josh shared, you know, improperly touching a young one, we were devastated and we said, we've got to send him out of the home. He has got to go and seek counsel and get help."
Truth: It's gotta hurt like hell to be an "older" Duggar girl. Your parents are reasonably OK with you being molested compared to your little sister.
Let's chat for a sec about how you "helped" Josh at home. Oh, wait. You did nothing. Josh self-reported 4 of the 5 known assaults. One of the victims or witness reported the fifth. No counseling. No removal to a grandparent, aunt /uncle or cousin without children. No emergency foster care. Not a freaking thing.
Jim Bob and Michelle are not Good Shepards.
Lie 14:
"KELLY: All this you learned from Josh.
J. B. DUGGAR: And actually none of the victims really knew about this or understood what he had done until we told them.
Truth:
One: We've covered this: Daughters "B", "C" and "D" were awake and aware of being molested or seeing a sister be molested.
Two: NO MEMORY-NO PROBLEM is sick logic.
Please, let this be a lie:
"KELLY: I'm asking you more as the father of your girls than as the father of Josh. You know, it must have been very hard to look at your little one and know the behavior had been ongoing, as difficult as your position was.
J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse.
KELLY: And just to clarify, it was four daughters and there was a babysitter outside the family.
J. B. DUGGAR: Yes."
Or else the truth is: Jim-Bob knows situations where one abuser hurt more than 5 people in one year and he's OK with that.
Lie Fifteen:"KELLY: We're getting into that. First I want to ask you about the counseling because the counseling Josh got in that treatment center was that the only counseling he ever received. What about your daughters?
J.B. DUGGAR: No. Josh actually went and had complete professional...
KELLY: The real licensed therapist counseling?
M. DUGGAR: All of our children received professional counseling, including Josh. After this, all of our children received professional counseling, including Josh, who paid for his own counseling himself.
J.B. DUGGAR: It was an accredited professional counselor.
Truth: To paraphrase Michelle, he was a mentor "kind of "......but not licensed.
Lie Sixteen:
KELLY: Did you ever worry that the treatment didn't work, especially with so many young children in the house?
J.B. DUGGAR: No. No. Josh was a changed person.
M. DUGGAR: We still had those safeguards in place. I mean, there were a lot of things that changed in our understanding as parents with this first child, first son to come to this place in his life, we're like, there were things we learned even since then that I think, you know what, we don't let boys baby-sit. They don't play hide and seek together, the two don't go off and hide. There are just a lot of things we've put in place. You're not alone in a room with someone else. Always be out visible, and, you know, little ones don't sit on big boys' laps or people that you don't know or even family members, unless it's your daddy. So we just -- there's boundaries that we've learned --
Truth: Those safeguards appeared after the police report in 2006 - if ever. Son "F" stated that Josh and he both babysat - just for short times. You know, when Michelle and Jim Bob couldn't find anyone else to pawn their offspring on.
Lie Seventeen:"M. DUGGAR: I think that protecting young girls and not allowing young men or men in general to go into a girls' locker room is just common sense."Truth: That is NOT what your robocall was about. Woman, you let four of your daughters and one babysitter be molested under your roof - you have NO place to lecture us on common sense.
Lie Eighteen and Nineteen:
"KELLY: What happens to the Duggars from here?
J.B. DUGGAR: I don't know if the rest of the family should be punished for acts of our children that happened 12 years ago or not, but, you know, we are fine whether they film us or not. We're going to go ahead and live life and serve god and make a difference in the world."
Truth: Why is Jim Bob so reluctant to express anger or outrage at the fact his daughters were molested? Because he blames the girls AND Josh equally. Let's not be stupid; you need the cash to keep your lifestyle going.
Lie 20:
"M. DUGGAR: What's devastating as a mom for me is we took our children to the children safety center. We trusted them. We trusted the police department. Our children poured out their hearts. They shared everything. And then to have their trust betrayed? And for all of their information and everything they share to be turned over to a tabloid, for those things to be twisted and shared in a slanderous way, story after story, tabloid after tabloid. That breaks my heart for my girls because I think this is such a horrible -- they've been victimized more by what has happened in these last couple weeks than they were 12 years ago because they honestly - - they didn't even understand or know that anything had happened until after the fact when they were told about it. And so I think there's not -- in our hearts before god, we haven't been keeping secrets, we have been protecting those that, honestly, should be protected. And now what's happened is they've been victimized. But people with an agenda, and for whatever profit they think they're going to get? But in this, one thing I know is god is going to use all of this for good."
THE TRUTH: The following children TRUSTED you, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar: Daughter "A", Daughter "B", Daughter "C", Daughter "D", the babysitter "H", and Josh Duggar.
You BETRAYED them in 2002, 2003 and 2015 for money and fame.
The worst part is still to come, Jim Bob and Michelle.
Your daughters are growing...beginning their own families.
With maturity, your daughters will realize that you were willing to sacrifice them - not to save Josh - but to avoid inconveniencing yourself.
I only have one question: How do you sleep at night?
How many lies can you find? Part one: Duggar Police Report
As long as the Duggars were avoiding the media, I didn't want to read through the police report. I hoped that the Duggars would show some level of humility and compassion for their own daughters and allow them to start healing through access to counseling. I didn't want to make things worse for the daughters.....
Then, JimBo and Miz JimBo decided to take the offensive with "We did the best we could!", "We've heard of this happening before", "The media is EVIL" and the comment that triggered my rage "Yeah, you know. Parents aren't mandated reporters."
Well, buddies....I'm using my mandated reporter self to read the police report. Then I'm gonna read your interviews. I'm gonna use my voice and my blog to point out the lying, hypocritical, self-absorbed shit you have been pedaling.
I know that a lot of people can't read the police report due to triggering events. All the police report triggers in me is rage. Rage that I couldn't protect your kids because they weren't in my classroom. Rage that you are still covering up and pretending to be parents of the year.
*Sighs* Anyways.....I've tried to make this as trigger-free as possible, but it's not. If sexual abuse is triggering to you, please stop reading. It's not worth it. Use the time to send empowering thoughts to the Duggar kids or pray or...something.
From the police reports, there are some details that could be used to identify which daughter or son is being interviewed at any time. I will not report any of those details and I have not tried to identify the daughters in any way. The daughters and sons are assigned letters according to the order that they were interviewed by the police.
Feel free to check my references. Link to Police Report (PR). I've cited where I've pulled the information in the police report from with the citation (PR ##) where PR = Police Report and ## = page number of police report
Here's a crib of the police reports:
Precipitating Incidents of the Police Report being filed:
- At some point after the molestation incidents, someone wrote a letter about Josh sexually assaulting someone and placed it in a book. The Duggars lent the book out a few years later and the letter was found. Jim-Bob and Michelle will not identify who wrote the letter.(PR 12)
- On a date prior to December 12th, 2006, a faxed report was received by the police hotline explaining that the Duggars were aware of multiple molestation incidents involving Josh and had had Josh talk to a police officer but a report had never been filed. The caller also expressed concern that Josh had never received treatment. (PR 11)
- On December 7th, 2006, Harpo Studio receives an email from a concerned person who knows the Duggars warning that Josh had molested girls and his parents were hiding the incidents. Harpo Studio forwards the email to the police in AR and cancels the Duggars appearance on Oprah.(PR 12,13)
- The Duggars are called into the police station. Whenever reached on the phone, Michelle refuses to make any plans without consulting Jim Bob. (PR 12)
Timeline according to Jim Bob and Michelle's report to the police.
Jim Bob and Michelle are interviewed December 12th, 2006. Jim Bob ("James") tells the story.
First disclosure: March 2002:
Josh disclosed to Jim Bob that he had molested one of his sisters "4 or 5" times while she was sleeping in the living room on a couch (PR pg 14.). This daughter ("A") only remembers partially waking up when she thought Josh was taking her blanket away (PR pg 14.). While the names of the daughters are redacted, the rest of the sentence is clear that at least two of the daughters have been sleeping in a common area of the house (like the living room) rather than in a bedroom on a semi-regular basis. (PR 14)
Second disclosure: July 2002
Josh disclosed to his parents that he had molested another girl. This girl was most likely not a Duggar sibling because Jim Bob needed to explain who she was to the reporting officer (PR pg 14). The Duggars punished Josh (PR pg 15).
Third disclosure: March 2003
Jim Bob and Michelle are aware of two more incidents.
- They received a call from someone (either Josh or one of his siblings) after Josh had molested a sibling (Daughter "C") while reading her a book in the presence of his other siblings (PR 15).
- They are aware of Josh molesting a different sister near the laundry room at some point before this incident.
When Josh returns home, the church elders and Jim Bob take him to see Sgt. Hutchins since Jim Bob knew him from when Hutchins inspected car dealerships. Sgt. Hutchins talks to Josh, then fails to do a mandated reporting of the abuse. Hutchins accepts the "treatment" program as a valid punishment (PR 16).
Inteview with Duggar Daughter "A":
Daughter A remembers being asleep on a chair alone in the living room. She woke up when she thought Josh was taking her blanket. They were the only people in the room and both of them were clothed. Josh confessed to his parents and Sister A that he touched her over her clothing on her breasts and privates. Daughter A confirms on a drawing that privates is a term used for vagina. (PR 17)
When asked if she knows of any other incidents, she had heard that Josh molested another young woman who was at the house as a babysitter when the babysitter had fallen asleep on the couch. (PR 18).
Interview with Duggar Daughter "B":
The redactions make this interview hard to follow. This daughter is either describing an incident where she was molested by Josh or an incident where her sister was molested by Josh. I think this is the daughter who was molested by the laundry room, but I cannot be certain. (PR 19-20)
Interview with Duggar Daughter "C":
Daughter "C" describes being molested by Josh while he read her a book. The interview is complicated by the fact that this daughter does not know the terms for vagina, buttock, or penis. She uses the term "privates or private" to describe all of them. The daughter was clear on which part of her body Josh touched that time. The redacted sections are difficult to decipher in places, but a possible outcome is that Josh ran out of the room and called his parents OR another sibling ran out of the room and called the parents. (PR 21-22)
Interview with Duggar Daughter "D"
This daughter became upset during the interview. This daughter remembers seeing Josh put his hand under the dress of one of her sisters in the laundry room. She had also been told that Josh had touched her while she was sleeping, but she didn't remember that time.(PR pg 23-24.)
Police make contact with the parents of the babysitter who was molested. They don't really think the incident was a problem - insist that everything is fine between the families - and allow their daughter to make a choice about interviewing. (pg 24)
Interview with Duggar Daughter "E"
This daughter doesn't remember any molestation incidents involving herself, but gives some insights into the events around when Daughter "C" was molested. Some of the siblings were out to eat with the Duggar parents and Michelle's father when Josh molested "C". The absent siblings were probably an older group because this daughter used the term "[redacted name] up" to describe who was gone. This section suggests that Josh called the Duggar parents to come home because several redacted areas seem to be four characters long (or match the other redacted "Josh") and are followed by a redacted "he". This sibling thought Josh left for counseling in July. Josh's actions lead to something being canceled. At the very end, the daughter mentions that someone makes her uncomfortable and had placed a hand on someone's hip in the past. (PR pg 25-26)
{Dear God in Heaven, can't any of these girls get away from people hurting them?}
Interview with Duggar Son "F"
This interview runs differently than most of the others which is why I think one of the older boys was being interviewed. The son knew nothing of the molestation incidents firsthand. He had heard about them in the two family meetings that were held one year apart. The son remembers Josh being sent off twice after the second incident to help re-model a home. The son has never been touched in an inappropriate area. The son explains that the older daughters and grandmother babysit when the parents are gone - but he babysits for short periods of time. Josh also babysits for short periods of time with another sibling. (PR 26-28)
Interview with young Duggar Son"G"
I am not certain of the gender of this child, but I think it is one of the young sons. My rationale is that when asked if it is ok to be touched on the chest, the girls all answered "No" while this child answered yes. This child had not seen anyone touch anyone else inappropriately or been touched on the genitals. When asked if it was ok to be touched on the buttocks, the child answered 'sometimes'. The kid replied to questioning that it's ok for mom or dad to touch you on the buttocks if you are in trouble and you are getting spanked. The officer asked what the parents spank with and the kid replied with a rod. The kid also replied (to a question) that the spankings did not leave bruises. (PR 28-29)
The officer makes contact with Michelle to set up an interview with another kid. They set the time. The officer asks about the training center Josh was sent to. Michelle explains that the center wasn't a center and the "counselor" wasn't certified. She explains that he was a guy they knew who was remodeling a building. The officer asks if he was a mentor. Michelle replies "Kind of." (PR 30)
Interview with unrelated female "H"
"H" remembers nothing of the molestation by Josh. She learned of it when the Duggars called her parents and Josh confessed. She remembers the night she stayed over, but not the attack. She hasn't seen Josh since he returned from Little Rock. (PR 30-31)
After this, the Duggars shut down communication with the police and retain a lawyer for Josh.(PR 32-33)
I feel queasy. I'm gonna go feed calves and chickens until I feel better.
Here. Have some calf pictures from me to you.
Yeah, he's nursing at the wrong end. They do that.
Wednesday, June 3, 2015
Who are the Duggars really protecting?
I've been thinking/re-thinking this blog post for a week now. I think it's time.
Who were the Duggars protecting 15 years ago when Josh was caught or confessed to molesting multiple much younger girls including two of his sisters?
Not Josh's victims....
Clearly, not the multiple victims. The young girls clearly didn't even count into the equation. The Duggars have been swearing left and right that Josh and the girls got counseling.
Based on the two paragraphs I've read of Jessa Sewald's defense of Josh, I'm willing to bet the farm that she never received counseling from a "secular", licensed counselor. I've seen a psychologist for years and she'd punch holes in "he's not a molester" in about 20 seconds. Because she gives a shit about her clients.
Josh was shipped off to do some manual labor with a friend of a friend. I wonder if they told the friend of a friend that Josh had molested some of his sisters in their house?
Shit, The Duggar Publicity Machine (TM) been touting Josh and his siblings work as first-responders for the tiny, rural area they live in. That position wouldn't be available to Josh if he had a sexual abuse conviction.
See, the Duggars have been pretending that they were protecting Josh...or letting the media assume that. Did they protect Josh?
Nope.Let's pretend that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar acted like responsible adults 15+ years ago. They report the abuse they saw or Josh confessed to them to a police officer. The police officer files a report. Because of Josh's age, the matter would have been handled by juvenile court. After a trial, Josh would likely be sentenced to some time in detention AND/OR required to attend court-mandated counseling until he was 18 (or 21 or 25....I don't know Arkansas' laws, but Michigan would require at least until 21). If he missed counseling, he'd go back to detention until 18.
I've been reading up on outcomes for young teenagers who molest much younger children. Two things popped out. First, the vast majority of abusers in that class have been sexually abused themselves OR severe mental illness. Second, treatment by a mental health professional reduces recidivism rates to below 8% over 20 years when combined with family treatment to give the parents the skills they need.
So, if the Duggars had involved the justice system, they would have managed to protect their daughters, protect other non-relative and given Josh a chance of never molesting again.
Why didn't Jim Bob and Michelle get the system involved 15+ years ago?
Why did they:
their kids their props.
See, Jim Bob and Michelle could not let a trained therapist anywhere near their kids.
How long would it take a therapist to figure out that the older kids were raising their younger siblings?
How long would take to find out about the absurd amount of chores the kids have? That they were building their house during "school" time before TLC finished it?
Who would be the first kid to explain what "blanket training" is?
Who'd let the therapist know about the "vows" they made at ATI?
Who'd explain the "umbrella of protection" and how the abuse was a sign that the girls (somehow) got out from under it?
Of course, Jim Bob and Michelle didn't want to go near a therapist themselves.
A therapist would have:
Who were the Duggars protecting 15 years ago when Josh was caught or confessed to molesting multiple much younger girls including two of his sisters?
Not Josh's victims....
Clearly, not the multiple victims. The young girls clearly didn't even count into the equation. The Duggars have been swearing left and right that Josh and the girls got counseling.
Based on the two paragraphs I've read of Jessa Sewald's defense of Josh, I'm willing to bet the farm that she never received counseling from a "secular", licensed counselor. I've seen a psychologist for years and she'd punch holes in "he's not a molester" in about 20 seconds. Because she gives a shit about her clients.
Josh was shipped off to do some manual labor with a friend of a friend. I wonder if they told the friend of a friend that Josh had molested some of his sisters in their house?
Shit, The Duggar Publicity Machine (TM) been touting Josh and his siblings work as first-responders for the tiny, rural area they live in. That position wouldn't be available to Josh if he had a sexual abuse conviction.
See, the Duggars have been pretending that they were protecting Josh...or letting the media assume that. Did they protect Josh?
Nope.Let's pretend that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar acted like responsible adults 15+ years ago. They report the abuse they saw or Josh confessed to them to a police officer. The police officer files a report. Because of Josh's age, the matter would have been handled by juvenile court. After a trial, Josh would likely be sentenced to some time in detention AND/OR required to attend court-mandated counseling until he was 18 (or 21 or 25....I don't know Arkansas' laws, but Michigan would require at least until 21). If he missed counseling, he'd go back to detention until 18.
I've been reading up on outcomes for young teenagers who molest much younger children. Two things popped out. First, the vast majority of abusers in that class have been sexually abused themselves OR severe mental illness. Second, treatment by a mental health professional reduces recidivism rates to below 8% over 20 years when combined with family treatment to give the parents the skills they need.
So, if the Duggars had involved the justice system, they would have managed to protect their daughters, protect other non-relative and given Josh a chance of never molesting again.
Why didn't Jim Bob and Michelle get the system involved 15+ years ago?
Why did they:
- Hold a photo shoot with Josie while she was still in the NICU - despite the fact that premature infants have very weak immune systems?
- Allow the camera crew to enter Josie's "separate" room at home when she was supposed to be separated from new people?
- Use their older kids as unpaid labor to build their home?
- Completely ignore the fact that Jessa detested Ben?
- Feel compelled to explain what Jinger "really" meant when she said she wanted to move to the city when she married?
- Name one of set of twins nearly identical names (Jedidiah and Jeremiah) and give two daughters the same freaking name (Joy-Anna and Johannah)?
- Have Michelle shoot B-reel footage with her phone as Jason was bleeding and scared after a fall into an orchestra pit?
- Seem completely oblivious to the fact that Jordyn was dreading her real mom - Jessa - getting married and moving out?
See, Jim Bob and Michelle could not let a trained therapist anywhere near their kids.
How long would it take a therapist to figure out that the older kids were raising their younger siblings?
How long would take to find out about the absurd amount of chores the kids have? That they were building their house during "school" time before TLC finished it?
Who would be the first kid to explain what "blanket training" is?
Who'd let the therapist know about the "vows" they made at ATI?
Who'd explain the "umbrella of protection" and how the abuse was a sign that the girls (somehow) got out from under it?
Of course, Jim Bob and Michelle didn't want to go near a therapist themselves.
A therapist would have:
- Connected Michelle's previous bulimia and her obsession with having children.
- Challenged both parents to raise their own children.
- Challenged both parents to postpone producing any more children while they had at least 3 kids (Josh, Jill and Jessa....) in a crisis state.
Monday, June 1, 2015
Preparing to Be a Help Meet: Fleas: Part Four
Now that Debi's gotten us all good and warmed up, she moves into exactly how God exacts vengeance on wives!
If you think for one second that you can enter marriage with your past behavior stuffed out of sight and out of mind in a trunk in your attic, think again! The attitudes you have before marriage will resurface. They will grow and become monsters that will tear into your marriage.
So many mixed metaphors.....
If you resisted authority in your youth, once you marry you will feel just as trapped by your husband as you did by your parents. The worst of it is, you'll blame your pitiful existence on your husband. In your youth you can look forward to getting married and leaving the situations. Now that you are married, to leave the situation is divorce.
*Gapes in horror at the previous paragraph*
I'm not even sure quite where to start.
Problem 1: Everyone goes through rebellious periods of life. Most people have at least three stages: toddlerhood, puberty, and mid-late teenage years.
Toddlers are learning that they are independent beings from their parents and are learning how to express their feelings towards items and actions they don't like. (After all, image not being able to say "no!" for 18 months of your life. Wouldn't you want to spend a lot of time expressing "no!" after that?)
Puberty marks the beginning of a several year period where adolescents are primed to learn to conform to their peer group. Yeah, CP will tell you that this is a cultural construct - and CP is lying through their teeth. Read history - teenagers have always been vaguely annoying at best to adults and will go to amazing lengths to find ways to interact with other teens without adults around. That's because your teenage friends of today are your marriage and business partners of tomorrow. It's worth the time to build bonds that will benefit the teen in later years.
Finally, most older teenagers are getting ready to set off on their own - and need to get some emotional distance from their family to do so.
None of these doom your marriage. In fact, the absence of these stages is likely to be more of a problem.
Problem 2: Your husband is not a surrogate parent. A wife is not a dependent child. Using the parent(s)-child relationship to predict spousal relationships is shaky logic at best - and at worst leads to some weird purity ball / Daddy-daughter dating crap.
Problem 3: Healthy adults take ownership of their feelings and choices. If a woman is feeling trapped, she needs to take stock on why she feels that way and what she needs to do to change that - not blame her husband mindlessly.
Problem 4:Choosing to leave an unhappy home by getting married is A HORRIBLE CHOICE. Unless you get some help - read therapy - you could well be jumping out of the hot frying pan into the fire. Of course, you could leave by moving out as a single woman.
Problem 5: Patricia/Debi forgot to explain why divorce is so terrible.
Thankfully, God used fleas to wake me up to honoring and obeying God and my husband.
Fleas to the Rescue:
My husband was....how would you put it....he was different. I was horrified to realize he did not agree with me on much of anything. I began to wonder how I could have fallen in love with such a cold-hearted, unromantic man. The man had no feelings!
Since Patricia has previously described Jesse as bossy and forceful, I don't understand her surprise.
About seven years into the marriage God reached his loving hand down and found us. We both, Jew and Gentile, husband and wife, came to understand the love of Jesus Christ. But becoming a Christian did not change my zeal for independence. I now wanted God's way in my life, although I had no clue as to what God wanted me as a wife. I was to learn.
Poof! They were saved - kind of. Since CP requires absolute female submission, Patricia's want to be treated like an adult is a problem.
Notice Patricia and Jesse have been married seven years at this point - God's moving slowly.
The years rolled on, and three children later, bitterness and resentment were my daily companions. Under my breath I would murmer (sic) things like, "I'll show you!" or "I can't believe I marred such an insensitive person." I would need a lesson from God if my marriage was going to survive and flourish. Even in my rebellion towards my husband, God knew I really wanted to know and honor my God and my husband. God sent fleas to the rescue.
Let's say Patricia had her three kids back-to-back. This means this story is at least 3 years AFTER they became "saved" and at least 10 years into their marriage.
My biggest concern at this point is that Patricia is no more mature at least 30 years old than most 12 year-olds. Muttering "I'll show you!" at your spouse is disturbingly juvenile for a married woman.
God's reaction to 10 years of immature bickering from Patricia is...fleas. I'm not impressed.
One day, as I was helping a friend pack up her home to move, she offered me several of her houseplants. I chose one, a beautiful healthy asparagus fern that hung just above where her cat slept. I excitedly took my prize plant home and hung it in our bedroom.
Several days later my dear husband suggested, "I'm beginning to get itchy. The plant must have fleas. You better get rid of it."
I gave him a look signifying how stupid he was. "Plants don't have fleas!" I conveniently forgot his suggestion to throw the plant out. Days passed and he warned me again, "you need to get rid of that plant, because the fleas are getting worse."
Mmm-kay. I guess the fern could have gotten fleas - it's a bit of a stretch, but it could happen if the cat had fleas and the fern was fairly close to the cat's sleeping area.
By the time the fleas have infested the house - and are biting Jesse - throwing the plant out is a moot point. The plague is here. Time to start vacuuming and treating animals.
More importantly - how is this an example of God punishing Patricia using fleas? The plant came into the house infested with fleas before Patricia "defied" her husband.
Has your dad or mom ever given you a command you thought was stupid? The same Bible that teaches we are to honor our parents also teaches that a wife is to reverence her husband "... and the wife see that she reverence her husband" (Ephesians 5:33).
My parents haven't "commanded" me to do anything since I was about 12. Like most pre-teens and early teens, I thought my parents were nuts and NO ONE understood me.
My husband has "commanded" me to do two things - both health-related.
Time One: I was very sick and breaking out in a rash and he told me that I needed to get in the truck so we could go to the hospital, NOW.
Time Two: I was helping round up steers during the great Steer IceCapades of 2015 in sub-zero wind-chills for two hours in clothing that was too lightweight for the temperature. As things were wrapping up, Nico looked at me and realized I wasn't shivering and was stumbling when I was walking. (Both of these are signs of hypothermia.) He said "You can sit in the truck, if you want." I replied "No....I'll just...finish moving these.....um....brooms." He replied "Melinda, get in the truck." I got in the truck.
I've "commanded" my husband to do a few things - also health-related. We both have blind spots there....
When my husband and I insist that the other do something for the sake of their own health, I think we are much closer to the message of Ephesians 5:33 than Debi's ever gotten in this whole book.
"Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." (KJV!)
I had no idea that God expected me to reverence my husband! He is just a man and is often wrong. Reverence him? But God gently continued to teach me.
By the next day, it was clear my husband was right. The fleas were multiplying so fast that they infested the whole house, including Spike, out long-haired guinea pig. My husband treated Spike with flea shampoo - over-treated, I should say. Poor old Spike looked like a mop gasping for air. I think he went into a mild cardiac arrest. What a mess! Getting rid of the fleas was quite an ordeal. My disobedience caused my husband and my family a lot of frustration. The big question is: did I learn anything?
Hopefully, you learned the importance of reading dosing information when treating animals with flea shampoos. You also probably learned how annoying it is to get rid of fleas and some good treatments for flea bites. Outside of that, there isn't much to learn.
The Case of Fleas the Second Time Around
Remember the baggage you accumulated as a single woman will come with you when you marry. I still assumed I was smarter and my way was right. God sent Lesson Two.
My husband felt God was telling him to get out of debt, so we sold our home and started looking for a rental. I found our first rental. It had everything I wanted in a house. Jesse looked at it and didn't feel comfortable about renting it. I put my charm to work, convinced him what a great house it was, and voila! He signed on the dotted line.
God told Jesse to get out of debt - seriously? Why didn't God speak up before they bought the house?
I think it's reasonable that Patricia talked to her husband about why she liked the house. If he was picking up on a real problem, he should have stuck to his guns.
Several nights after we moved into the house Jesse woke me up and announced, "We have fleas!" I rolled over and thought to myself, "Get a grip. We don't have fleas." (Hmm...do you see a pattern here?) Yup! The house was infested. We discovered the previous occupants were cat lovers. It took months to get rid of the fleas. By then Spike had gone to the happy hunting land, so he was spared my flea lesson.
Patricia must believe in a deterministic universe. For the fleas to be a divine punishment, God had to be setting up the punishment long before Patricia "sinned" by "disobeying" her husband.
Don't believe me? Run the timeline.
God, at some point in the past, caused a cat to become infested with fleas. The cat brought the fleas home where they moved into something. The cat owners move out. Jesse and Patricia look at the house. Patricia convinces Jesse to rent the home thereby "disobeying" her husband. God punishes Patricia by a flea infestation.....that had started long before her "sin".Evidently, I am a slow learner. Maybe from this story you would think I should just start cleaning my house better, but I am and have always been a clean freak.
Fleas have nothing to do with cleaning. Or divine punishment.
AntiPearl: A different way to look at the "fleas" in our lives- "The very contradictions in my life are in some ways signs of God's mercy to me."
If you think for one second that you can enter marriage with your past behavior stuffed out of sight and out of mind in a trunk in your attic, think again! The attitudes you have before marriage will resurface. They will grow and become monsters that will tear into your marriage.
So many mixed metaphors.....
If you resisted authority in your youth, once you marry you will feel just as trapped by your husband as you did by your parents. The worst of it is, you'll blame your pitiful existence on your husband. In your youth you can look forward to getting married and leaving the situations. Now that you are married, to leave the situation is divorce.
*Gapes in horror at the previous paragraph*
I'm not even sure quite where to start.
Problem 1: Everyone goes through rebellious periods of life. Most people have at least three stages: toddlerhood, puberty, and mid-late teenage years.
Toddlers are learning that they are independent beings from their parents and are learning how to express their feelings towards items and actions they don't like. (After all, image not being able to say "no!" for 18 months of your life. Wouldn't you want to spend a lot of time expressing "no!" after that?)
Puberty marks the beginning of a several year period where adolescents are primed to learn to conform to their peer group. Yeah, CP will tell you that this is a cultural construct - and CP is lying through their teeth. Read history - teenagers have always been vaguely annoying at best to adults and will go to amazing lengths to find ways to interact with other teens without adults around. That's because your teenage friends of today are your marriage and business partners of tomorrow. It's worth the time to build bonds that will benefit the teen in later years.
Finally, most older teenagers are getting ready to set off on their own - and need to get some emotional distance from their family to do so.
None of these doom your marriage. In fact, the absence of these stages is likely to be more of a problem.
Problem 2: Your husband is not a surrogate parent. A wife is not a dependent child. Using the parent(s)-child relationship to predict spousal relationships is shaky logic at best - and at worst leads to some weird purity ball / Daddy-daughter dating crap.
Problem 3: Healthy adults take ownership of their feelings and choices. If a woman is feeling trapped, she needs to take stock on why she feels that way and what she needs to do to change that - not blame her husband mindlessly.
Problem 4:Choosing to leave an unhappy home by getting married is A HORRIBLE CHOICE. Unless you get some help - read therapy - you could well be jumping out of the hot frying pan into the fire. Of course, you could leave by moving out as a single woman.
Problem 5: Patricia/Debi forgot to explain why divorce is so terrible.
Thankfully, God used fleas to wake me up to honoring and obeying God and my husband.
Fleas to the Rescue:
My husband was....how would you put it....he was different. I was horrified to realize he did not agree with me on much of anything. I began to wonder how I could have fallen in love with such a cold-hearted, unromantic man. The man had no feelings!
Since Patricia has previously described Jesse as bossy and forceful, I don't understand her surprise.
About seven years into the marriage God reached his loving hand down and found us. We both, Jew and Gentile, husband and wife, came to understand the love of Jesus Christ. But becoming a Christian did not change my zeal for independence. I now wanted God's way in my life, although I had no clue as to what God wanted me as a wife. I was to learn.
Poof! They were saved - kind of. Since CP requires absolute female submission, Patricia's want to be treated like an adult is a problem.
Notice Patricia and Jesse have been married seven years at this point - God's moving slowly.
The years rolled on, and three children later, bitterness and resentment were my daily companions. Under my breath I would murmer (sic) things like, "I'll show you!" or "I can't believe I marred such an insensitive person." I would need a lesson from God if my marriage was going to survive and flourish. Even in my rebellion towards my husband, God knew I really wanted to know and honor my God and my husband. God sent fleas to the rescue.
Let's say Patricia had her three kids back-to-back. This means this story is at least 3 years AFTER they became "saved" and at least 10 years into their marriage.
My biggest concern at this point is that Patricia is no more mature at least 30 years old than most 12 year-olds. Muttering "I'll show you!" at your spouse is disturbingly juvenile for a married woman.
God's reaction to 10 years of immature bickering from Patricia is...fleas. I'm not impressed.
One day, as I was helping a friend pack up her home to move, she offered me several of her houseplants. I chose one, a beautiful healthy asparagus fern that hung just above where her cat slept. I excitedly took my prize plant home and hung it in our bedroom.
Several days later my dear husband suggested, "I'm beginning to get itchy. The plant must have fleas. You better get rid of it."
I gave him a look signifying how stupid he was. "Plants don't have fleas!" I conveniently forgot his suggestion to throw the plant out. Days passed and he warned me again, "you need to get rid of that plant, because the fleas are getting worse."
Mmm-kay. I guess the fern could have gotten fleas - it's a bit of a stretch, but it could happen if the cat had fleas and the fern was fairly close to the cat's sleeping area.
By the time the fleas have infested the house - and are biting Jesse - throwing the plant out is a moot point. The plague is here. Time to start vacuuming and treating animals.
More importantly - how is this an example of God punishing Patricia using fleas? The plant came into the house infested with fleas before Patricia "defied" her husband.
Has your dad or mom ever given you a command you thought was stupid? The same Bible that teaches we are to honor our parents also teaches that a wife is to reverence her husband "... and the wife see that she reverence her husband" (Ephesians 5:33).
My parents haven't "commanded" me to do anything since I was about 12. Like most pre-teens and early teens, I thought my parents were nuts and NO ONE understood me.
My husband has "commanded" me to do two things - both health-related.
Time One: I was very sick and breaking out in a rash and he told me that I needed to get in the truck so we could go to the hospital, NOW.
Time Two: I was helping round up steers during the great Steer IceCapades of 2015 in sub-zero wind-chills for two hours in clothing that was too lightweight for the temperature. As things were wrapping up, Nico looked at me and realized I wasn't shivering and was stumbling when I was walking. (Both of these are signs of hypothermia.) He said "You can sit in the truck, if you want." I replied "No....I'll just...finish moving these.....um....brooms." He replied "Melinda, get in the truck." I got in the truck.
I've "commanded" my husband to do a few things - also health-related. We both have blind spots there....
When my husband and I insist that the other do something for the sake of their own health, I think we are much closer to the message of Ephesians 5:33 than Debi's ever gotten in this whole book.
"Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." (KJV!)
I had no idea that God expected me to reverence my husband! He is just a man and is often wrong. Reverence him? But God gently continued to teach me.
By the next day, it was clear my husband was right. The fleas were multiplying so fast that they infested the whole house, including Spike, out long-haired guinea pig. My husband treated Spike with flea shampoo - over-treated, I should say. Poor old Spike looked like a mop gasping for air. I think he went into a mild cardiac arrest. What a mess! Getting rid of the fleas was quite an ordeal. My disobedience caused my husband and my family a lot of frustration. The big question is: did I learn anything?
Hopefully, you learned the importance of reading dosing information when treating animals with flea shampoos. You also probably learned how annoying it is to get rid of fleas and some good treatments for flea bites. Outside of that, there isn't much to learn.
The Case of Fleas the Second Time Around
Remember the baggage you accumulated as a single woman will come with you when you marry. I still assumed I was smarter and my way was right. God sent Lesson Two.
My husband felt God was telling him to get out of debt, so we sold our home and started looking for a rental. I found our first rental. It had everything I wanted in a house. Jesse looked at it and didn't feel comfortable about renting it. I put my charm to work, convinced him what a great house it was, and voila! He signed on the dotted line.
God told Jesse to get out of debt - seriously? Why didn't God speak up before they bought the house?
I think it's reasonable that Patricia talked to her husband about why she liked the house. If he was picking up on a real problem, he should have stuck to his guns.
Several nights after we moved into the house Jesse woke me up and announced, "We have fleas!" I rolled over and thought to myself, "Get a grip. We don't have fleas." (Hmm...do you see a pattern here?) Yup! The house was infested. We discovered the previous occupants were cat lovers. It took months to get rid of the fleas. By then Spike had gone to the happy hunting land, so he was spared my flea lesson.
Patricia must believe in a deterministic universe. For the fleas to be a divine punishment, God had to be setting up the punishment long before Patricia "sinned" by "disobeying" her husband.
Don't believe me? Run the timeline.
God, at some point in the past, caused a cat to become infested with fleas. The cat brought the fleas home where they moved into something. The cat owners move out. Jesse and Patricia look at the house. Patricia convinces Jesse to rent the home thereby "disobeying" her husband. God punishes Patricia by a flea infestation.....that had started long before her "sin".Evidently, I am a slow learner. Maybe from this story you would think I should just start cleaning my house better, but I am and have always been a clean freak.
Fleas have nothing to do with cleaning. Or divine punishment.
AntiPearl: A different way to look at the "fleas" in our lives- "The very contradictions in my life are in some ways signs of God's mercy to me."
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)